Moving abroad sounds exciting, new country, new opportunities, a fresh start. But what happens
after the first few months, when the novelty fades out and the real life begins?
You need social interactions, you need to communicate with people and
a meeting over video is one thing but actually having a drink, having a laugh and being able
to speak with someone who gets it is something completely different.
Because living abroad isn't just about logistics, it's about connection.
And sometimes the people back home don't fully understand what you're going through.
The people that we knew from the Netherlands, they didn't really understand what we were
going through because they just kept on living their lives. You put yourself out there, you step
out of your comfort zone, you take a risk, you do something that is unknown. It's scary for a lot of
people. That's what this episode is about. The courage to step into the unknown and what it
truly takes to build a new life somewhere new. Try to integrate. So even if you don't speak the
language or if you're not willing to put yourself out there to learn the language yet, do something
to meet people because otherwise, you know, what is the point? You're going back to COVID times.
You will get isolated very quickly. Isolation can happen faster than you think, but so can growth.
You've probably already made the step to live abroad. Are you thinking about seriously doing
that? Do it. If you're not doing it yet, do it. It changes everything in your life. It changes how
you perceive the world. It widens your horizon. Today on Almost Local, the living abroad story
of Josh Kennedy. Let's start. Changes over time, of course, but the person remains the same,
but currently I'm a father of two kids, not any plans to have a third one. But originally from
the Netherlands, I am 33 years old. Been in business for over 15 years. Been living in
south of France for more than eight years. Tried a lot of things, did a lot of things,
succeeded, built things in between. We're probably going to touch on a few of those topics today.
Absolutely. First question first, I suppose, like where are you from in Netherlands? Like which
region are you coming from? I was born in Hilversum. I'm not sure. Have you ever been to the Netherlands?
I've been to the Netherlands, but not the Hilversum. Everything is very close in the Netherlands,
but it's called the media center of the Netherlands. All the broadcasting agencies
and the television networks are there. It's a lovely place. Nice. You said you've been living
in Nice in France for the last eight years. That's quite some time. What brought you there?
You left Netherlands and directly went to France or there was something in between?
Well, I've been thinking about moving away from the Netherlands for as long as I can remember. I
never really felt at home in the Netherlands at all to be honest. But my currently wife,
back then that was my girlfriend, she wasn't very keen on moving abroad, especially not to a country
where we didn't speak the language yet. But her father passed away when she was very young. Her
father, I think she was about six years old. Her mother passed away. Her mom eventually got to meet
someone new. He has been living here in the south of France for over 30 years.
At some point, she announced to my wife that she was thinking about moving in with him in France,
which gave a very big shocker to her. So we discussed and she said, "Would you be
fine if we would follow my mom?" To the south, France said, "Absolute pleasure." Couldn't be a
better timing because as you know, I always wanted to leave the Netherlands and I've been pushing her
around to see and go to other places. And now this is the perfect opportunity to do so.
So we ended up in Vence. They live in Tour de Salouce, it's very close. That was one of the
requirements of my wife. We had to be very close. I absolutely love it here.
Cool. I mean, interesting now because the one who was pushing for moving abroad
ended up being the one pushed to move abroad. That's also nice. I mean, it's interesting though
that you had this intrigue directly on you. Is it like a family thing? When you grow up,
you used to travel a lot? I don't know. My brother, he passed away as well, but he had autism.
And my parents discovered that at a very young age, when he was very young. So he was about two
and he sort of stopped developing mentally. So that's when they knew that something was wrong.
My father, he was more back in the day so it was more traditional. He was always gone. He was always
traveling, providing for his family and my mom was taking care of us. And initially he had plans to
take a opportunity in Australia, if I'm not mistaken, and wanted to move the whole family.
But that is the moment that they found out that something was wrong with my brother. So then that
sort of stopped, but it's not something that they ever desired. They like traveling, they like going
to cities, like seeing places, but I've never really heard them seriously speak about moving elsewhere.
Whereas, when I literally crossed the border to Germany or to Belgium, that just felt
immediately liberating to me. The idea of not being in the Netherlands, that just made me so
incredibly excited. I still don't know exactly what it is, but I just always had that very strong
feeling that I had to get away. Interesting. And France, how has the expectations versus reality
of the French Riviera are fitting? I think it's for me, obviously at first, I don't know if you
experienced that yourself, but you are from Spain, but for you it was the other way around. So you had
the great culture, I would say, and the beautiful weather and all that, then you moved to Germany,
you mentioned. It is sort of the other way around switch that we made. For us, I mean, just having
the sunshine, having a better quality of life, doing things that is not only about career and
having a faster car and a more expensive this and that. But that was very, that made me really
reconnect with myself and focus on the things that actually matter in life. Yeah, so that felt really
good. But yeah, I don't know how it was for you. How was it for you to move to Germany? I mean,
I moved for work, so it wasn't really a decision of like whatever. So economically it made a lot
of sense. Winters were way harder than I expected. Yeah, of course I didn't have much expectations
because it happened relatively fast. So I didn't have time to manage or create expectations of
the place where I was going, let's say like this. So I went a little bit blank, but it's true that
at the beginning it was shocking, especially in terms of like temperature and climate.
It was interesting, the first years abroad. I wanted to ask you, actually, what were you
doing professionally? What do you do professionally right now that allow you to say from one day to
the other, "Oh, let's, let's live to France." Yeah, so well, my first venture was a web design agency.
So my best friend, he was very good at making and developing websites, but he didn't like speaking
with clients at all. We had once a very funny conversation because I was very good at the
selling part and I absolutely loved doing that, still love doing it. But then when we actually
started selling websites and selling projects, there was obviously some, well, some discussion
about what the clients expected and what they wanted and all that. So take me with you in the
next meeting because I want to speak with them directly. I said, "All right, let's do that."
And the moment we sat and we spoke with the clients with two people and we walked out,
he said, "Never ever do that to me again. Never bring me to a client meeting again.
I just do things behind the scenes and you do that part." But yeah, from there it sort of grew.
People build a website back in the days it was 15 years ago and still do. Now it's essential that
you have a website, but back then it was essential. But yeah, people did that with a reason behind it.
So I quickly found out what that reason was, which was that they wanted to sell something online,
that they wanted to expand their business, something like that along those lines. So that's
how it's transformed into a marketing agency. And then over the years, we have created and built
several companies, sold almost all of them. And yeah, it has always been around marketing,
concepts and providing a service and building service businesses.
Nice. I'm in the sector also, so I'm a UX/UI designer. So I know what you're talking about.
What about the first challenges, first things that you had in France when you arrived? Were
you having kids already? The kids came afterwards? The kids came later. Yeah, I mean, there's so many
things, as I mentioned before, it sort of changes because you go through different stages as well.
This is our 8th year in the South of France specifically. So yeah, at first again, it was
very relaxed. You don't really have to deal with anything complicated because we traveled and we
moved within Europe. So you don't have to apply for any visas whatsoever. So you can just take your
stuff, drive and then start settling in elsewhere. But the only real difficulty that we had, what I
remember is that we were obviously looking for a place to live. And I remember that in order to
apply for a place to live, which was quite difficult, you would have to provide banking details.
And to open a bank account, you needed a phone number and to have a phone number,
you needed a place to live. So it was like a vicious circle you keep, like a loop that you're
stuck in. So more of those very specific things. And that's when you notice that you probably have
this in every country. But that's sort of when you realize that there are so many procedures and
things that have always been done the way they have been done for years. And no one has ever
thought about an exceptional situation and no one is willing to make any exceptions in those
types of situations. So that was very difficult for us, I remember that. Yeah, makes sense. I mean,
it's this kind of small things that you give by granted because at home it comes automatically
with the fact of being born there and that's it. It's what it is. But then when you move abroad,
it happens quite often. When does Next Locals come in the hall? I mean, maybe you can explain a little
bit about the concept and building communities and making friends abroad. When does this whole new
project start? Well, the reason for being on the podcast is not necessarily to promote what we're
doing. But for us, it was about a year after that we settled in here that we started feeling
isolation. That was sort of the problem that we ran into because at first, everything is good.
You go to all the restaurants, you spent as much money as you can on avoiding all responsibilities
of the real life. So you're just enjoying it as much as you can, all touristic stuff. But then,
even though we had some family living here, of course, my parents-in-law, you no longer have
friends very close to you. You don't have any professional contacts here. So that is something
that you quickly start missing. And even though I considered myself someone who is very easily able
to just live by yourself, sort of, as in isolated, that really starts to creep on you because you
need social interactions. You need to communicate with people. And meeting over video is one thing,
but actually having a drink, having a laugh, and being able to speak with someone who gets it,
is something completely different. And at the same time, the people that we still had back home,
because we were not lonely, because you still have friends, you still have family, and so on.
And the people that we knew from the Netherlands, they didn't really understand what we were going
through because they just kept on living their lives. They did not put sort of everything on the
line. It's a bit exaggerated, maybe, but you put yourself out there. You step out of your comfort
zone, you take a risk, you do something that is unknown. It's scary for a lot of people.
And most people don't understand that because you go to a country where you don't speak the
language yet, where literally anything you can think of in your own language, you now have to
do in a language that you don't speak. So it becomes suddenly very complicated to get stuff
done and to start meeting people. So that's why we attended a couple of events. But we noticed that,
especially here in the region, it's a lot of people that have retired. They're much older than we are.
And I'm not saying that they are unfriendly people or whatsoever, but they are in a completely
different stage of their life. So we felt that a sort of younger demographic was on the surfs and
we couldn't really find them. But we knew that they were out there. So that's why we started
organizing events ourselves. We initially called it a business networking community, because
coming from the Netherlands, everything is always about business and it's easy to talk about work.
So I thought that was going to be most important. But through the years of doing that, we noticed
that the majority of the people really came to find that social connection, to have a starting
point where you can rebuild your social circles abroad. So that's how we came up with that.
Cool. How effective this has been, like how many years are you doing? Because it's kind of a normal
thing. There is Meetup.com, there is Facebook groups, they organize this thing. Why deciding
to do something completely outside of that? Yeah. The thing is that we've been doing that for seven
years. So it was about a year after that we moved here and back then, Meetup has been around as well.
You do a Facebook, which is very commonly used still here. Facebook groups are very popular. But
yeah, the thing with Facebook groups is not organized. It's very difficult to find information.
Facebook now especially is flooded with ads. It's just one big advertising platform. Meetup is very,
very difficult to find a very good organized group as well. I also wanted to just do it myself,
because you have a different role when you are the host instead of being a guest. Then I am more in
a role of hosting. I come very often come across as someone who's a bit more extroverted. But
I'm more leaning towards introvert. Probably, I would probably not come across like that. But
it takes me a bit of pushing myself and bumping myself up to get in that mood and the right
energy. Whereas if I'm hosting, that is I'm fulfilling the responsibility. That is my task
and my responsibility to do so. That immediately makes me energized and then it's no longer about
myself. Has it worked? Have you found the local young people and the
foreigners or what is the normal people who come to this kind of Meetup?
We specifically focus on people who are living abroad. They typically have lived abroad or are
living abroad. We've literally met people from all over the world, which has grown into something so
much bigger than we initially expected. An average of that would happen. In terms of what it did for
ourselves, it's just incredible. Literally, my best man at our wedding, I met him there. Any
one person I can think of right now that has been a client that we work with, that we go out with
dinner, games, whatever. We've all met through the thing that we started. I think it is going to be a
question that is because I've seen some other podcasts like this. We'll probably return in one
of the quick questions. Now that we have two young kids, we also meet people in school.
But other than that, everything through the community, which is absolutely amazing.
Cool. Nice. Good that it worked. What about the challenges? Because it's something that some
majority of us who live abroad has been in one of these Meetups at some point in our life. You can
see that sometimes there is a strange environment in certain Meetups and challenges of making the
first connection or that people mix groups and they already met someone while coming back,
they already have their group and they disappear somehow. What is the biggest problem, challenges
that you face while you organize them from the other side, from someone who is organizing them
and not attending only? I think what we see in our community is we've had more than thousands of
people over the past seven years. We've seen a lot of people from lots of different backgrounds.
You do see lots of people returning. I think the most difficult thing that you would see
and experience is that you have people that are not fully committing to integrating in a new country.
They still live, as we would say, in the Netherlands with one leg in the other country and also here.
It is trying to pick the best from both worlds, but it doesn't work like that. You cannot have
it all, right? If you live here, that is my belief and my opinion, you should commit to fully
integrating in a country where you live, if you want to make it work. If you are planning to move
after a few months or after a few years, that's fine. There's no judgment,
but if you really want to make it work, you need to put yourself out there, put in the work as well.
And if you want to have a friend, you need to be a friend. You cannot just show up once and then
just swap information and then expect that you have a new friend for life. You need to spend time
together. You need to ask questions. You need to open yourself up. You need to invite others into
your house or even a follow-up after the meet-up. I haven't really experienced any very awkward
situations as I... Maybe this is giving myself too many credits or compliments, but we do our best to
make people feel welcome. It's not focused on exchanging business cards or you don't have
a name tag or whatsoever. It's just focusing on connecting with others and trying to find a
connection. And we have hosts as well who are trying to make that possible.
I haven't really experienced any awkward situations, but the only sort of difficult
situation for people that I've seen is that they try to build a relationship with someone,
but then they disappear for months where they just leave the region and then they sort of
feel like they have to start over again and then don't want to invest another
lots of time into someone else. Cool. Perfect. I would say we jumped to
the fast-reply questions and we see a little bit of this integration to France and what it is like
in there. The first question that I have is cultural adjustment. What thing took you a while to
catch up with or adapt? A few things, but it goes a lot slower here and then everything. I find that
very difficult. At first, I find it very liberating because that was sort of the thing that I was
frustrated with in the Netherlands, but then at the same time, it starts to frustrate you. If you
want to have something done, and I'm not being very negative about France now, but it is just my
observation and my personal experience. If you work with a plumber or whatever or an insurance or
something and it needs to be sorted, you send out an email, you try to phone them whatsoever,
you cannot assume that it is going to be taken care of. You have to
keep that on your list to make sure that it is being done in the upcoming weeks. Then that list
grows because people do not follow up. That is very difficult in terms of getting things done.
The slower pace of things is also something that I had to get used to because I was used to
moving much faster. Here, it's about, "All right. It's fine. But take a step back. Relax. Don't try
to do everything right now. Take your time. Let's build a relationship." Which is good,
but it's also very difficult. Makes sense. Next one is social life. Do you usually meet friends? You
have already half responded to it, but is there any other extra way of meeting maybe locals,
for example, instead of other foreigners? I am not sure. We haven't really tried that much.
The other thing that I did, but I also created a community for that, and then I closed it once it
served its purpose. If you do something that you love doing, so for me, it was skateboarding,
for example. I had not picked up a skateboard for a very long time. Here in France, I reconnected with
a lot of things such as skateboarding. I picked up guitar playing again. I played guitar. I
tried snowboarding. I went paragliding, things like that. If you do something, it is much easier to
connect with someone. Instead of just trying to chit chat about nothing, try to pick up a hobby
that you once loved or something that you would love to explore. There are lots of, I don't know
how it is in Italy where you live right now, or how it was in Germany, but in any country,
we are with billions of people all over the world. We are not that unique.
Say, if you like something, there is a very good and big chance that there are a few other people
very near to you that like the same things. Sharing hobbies are always a great way.
What about language? How necessary is to speak French? I mean, you moved,
I know you said that you moved without speaking French. Did you learn? How difficult was it?
It was very difficult because I didn't speak any French. That is not a good start. I wouldn't say
it is absolutely necessary at first, but to fully integrate and make your life much easier. I highly
recommend at least putting in the effort to have a basic level of understanding of French. I said
that you know when people make fun of you and things like that. At least even if it is to just
understand, because it is really frustrating if you are in a country where you don't understand
what is happening. Basically, what you hear very often is that people don't understand the
bureaucracy and the paperwork and things like that. But in fact, France, Notre is for its
bureaucracy and paperwork. The processes are almost always very well described, but it is in
French. So you have to look it up online. I think they even translated most of the pages right now,
but it is out there. So if you do some Googling and some reading and now with AI and all that,
you no longer have an excuse not to find it, but it is out there. So if you have a basic level
of understanding, it helps you a lot to understand the letters that you're receiving, to understand
what you need to do. I'm not sure if you want to ask where you should start to learn it.
But learn it, at least learn it. That's for sure. What about the cost of living? Is it cheap,
expensive? I think it is a general problem in the world. The cost of living has been on the rise for
years, especially after COVID. It has been horrible for anyone. But at the same time, we also make very,
I mean, there are lots of things that people spend money on nowadays that are absolutely
non-essential. So we have millions of subscriptions and we buy cocktails for 20 euros just for fun. So
it really depends. I think a very misconception that people have about this region specifically
is that you have to be a millionaire to live here. It's known for lots of richer people, people that
are doing financially very well are coming here. And that is true. And that definitely drives up
the price here in the region. It's one of the most expensive regions of France and Paris is the other
one and some other places. So yeah, generally speaking, it's not cheap, but again, you have
lots of locals here living as well. But just, I mean, the salaries in France, if you have a job,
which I don't have, but if you have a job, it's not that they pay a lot of money. So people are able
to survive on a normal salary. But yeah, you will probably have to adapt your life into that. We
personally spend quite a lot of money and that hurts obviously, but that gives us a very nice
life and we work hard to do that and give our kids the life that give them basically the youth
enchanted that we want as well, want it to have. Not that we had a bad, but what I mean. Better,
let's make it that. You touched upon it a little bit before, like finding a home, finding an apartment,
how difficult it is? How is the process normally? Yeah, you get stuck in a loop here. So you need
some sort of a way in, but usually people, there are quite a few websites. The thing I find very
frustrating here in France is that especially coming from the Netherlands, quality of housing is very
difficult. The difference, as you say, that the building quality, things like that is completely
different. So you find, you know, all the houses don't live up to our standards and not being trying
to be superior whatsoever. That everything in the Netherlands is so good. But because in the
Netherlands, the weather isn't very good. People tend to spend the majority of their time in the
office and at home. So they spend a lot more time and effort into creating a beautiful interior.
Whereas here in the south of France, life is lived outside. So they go to places, they meet on the
beaches and things like that. Having a very neatly designed home is not really an urgency.
So that is something that I found interesting to see. So that was sort of, I really had to get
used to that. And you do have some websites that you can find properties such as Soulogier, but yeah,
the problem with that is that real estate agents are not really putting in any time, energy and
effort to list the properties correctly. So they just walk around with the oldest one that you can
think of. Just snap one or two photos and that is it. You have to do it with that. And one practical
advice is that it's also very difficult to meet the criteria if you don't have a French contract
and if you have not registered in France yet. And you only register once you have a residency
because they don't have a basic registry of all the inhabitants. So they do that based on the
address where you live and your income tax. So what they have, the landlords, they use an insurance,
which is called Assurance Royer en Pays. If I'm not mistaken. Anyways, it's an insurance to protect
the landlord from rent is not being paid. So instead of a very difficult and costly procedure
to get you out, they can recoup the costs through the insurance. So the insurance company is actually
the one that is asking a lot, setting a lot of requirements for you to be able to apply and
qualify. So there is a way to bypass that and to make it easier. And there is a website called
Garant.me, which is a massive insurance company, but they solve that problem. So if you don't have,
or if you have foreign income or you have savings and you don't have an income and, or you only have
documents in a different language, you can use them. They are your guarantors. So they help you
with the negotiation and you have to pay for it of course, but then you can bypass all that trouble.
So that is a golden tip. I think that's the kind of tips that we are looking for.
Next one that I have is living like a local. This thing that you do to blend in or a mistake that
you should avoid to not stand out. Yeah. I mean, speaking the language is obviously one of them,
but living like a local is, I would say the just go to help at some point. I mean, you could always
spot the people from the UK and the Dutch people and all that. You can really pick them out. So to
give an example where you very often see is when Americans or people from the UK come over, then
you see them wearing shirts in say the winter now. And yeah, that you can easily pick that up.
So if you want to blend in like visually, just wear what everyone else is wearing. And in terms
of behavior, the most important thing is that you adapt to the sort of politeness that they have. So
always greet people and somewhere where exactly you are, but we always greet people that also,
yeah, it just helps opening up, start some small talk. And what definitely helps is, yeah, it again
comes back to the language. And I would always turn that around for people. So if you just thinking
back, in your home country or the country of origin, if someone would approach you in a completely
different language, just speak in their own language and assuming that you understand them
and expecting you to adapt to them in your country, that is usually not being taken in so well.
That is, yeah, treat others how you want to be treated as well. Try at least make an effort
instead of just trying to speak English or whatever language you try to fire at them.
I mean, being from Barcelona, I know quite a bit about that approaches and I agree.
Next one that I have, it's work life. How do you describe the work culture in the south of France?
Horrible. I am actually changing that. I'm doing something about it. It's a different project.
That's a project that I'm personally most focused on. My wife now runs the next locals project.
But yeah, it's a beautiful place to live, to work. And especially it's good to start like freelance
work. It's decent. But if you want to grow past that, if you want to build a business where you
are higher, where you're higher talent, try to build leverage and actually push forward
and thinking bigger, it becomes very, very difficult. So yeah, you don't have a lot of people
supporting you. The bureaucracy is not in your favor. You're suffocating taxes and so on. But
if you are an entrepreneur, that does not stop you from trying to achieve what you're trying to
achieve. And there are ways. And the way that we do it, at least how I do it is by having a place
where you can openly and honestly speak about your business or also being mentored and guided by those
who've done it. I think that makes a huge difference. So if you're not here in the south of France,
yeah, I mean, if you go to places like Silicon Valley and all that, that's a very... Well,
Barcelona actually is a very good example because a lot of things are happening right there, right
now. You have the proximity to opportunities and people come together, right? So there is a lot of
things happening and everything is very close. And Paris is similar, lots of investors there,
lots of capital there, lots of people building stuff. But here it is difficult, it's very scattered.
The region doesn't actually have any industry, for example, so it heavily relies on tourism. And
yeah, most ambitious people, they go to Paris and the majority of people that have succeeded here,
they have a successful business outside of France. So they just come in to relax. So it's a very
unique mix. It's challenging, but again, it's not impossible. So trying to create the hub.
Next one that I have, it's getting around. Do you need a car? How is the public transport? How does
it work? I never used any public transportation because we live in Vence, which is a bit more up
in the mountains. So we definitely need a car to get around. So if you would just go to the village,
you... People are starting to get used to bikes. So we do see a few more bikes here. But if you're
not training for the Tour de France, it's very dangerous to be on a bike and Uber and those
services don't really exist in the mountains. So you really need a car. And in the city, it's best
if you just use the tram and the bus. I've never used it, but I know lots of people who do that. And
they say it's super cheap. It's very easy to get around and cool. Next one it's healthcare.
You had two kids in there, so you know it pretty well. How is the system working? Is it easy to
access the quality? How does it... That is on the other side, as I said, it's a beautiful country to
live. So in terms of that, that is incredible. Honestly, I couldn't be any more positive about
the healthcare. I was there witnessing how my wife gave birth to our two boys. We chose to
go to a private clinic because that is also, first of all, it's closer to where we live. And we
wanted to pay for that experience. So there are a few things in life that you can pay for to give
a better experience. This is something that we consider we're spending money on. So we were
planning to reserve a bit of money for that. And then we found out that the total cost came to about
6,000 euros, which was... But I'm not finished yet, but because then we had to do some digging in
what we actually had to pay ourselves. But that gave us like a... I don't want to say pent-out,
because it wasn't on the top, but it was like a very big apartment where you can... With a
usually deprecating maternity bed where you can relax with the shower and things, all that, but
also breakfast served, lunch served, dinner served, a balcony, an extra room, a bed, a table, a lounge
set, anything that we wanted, excellent service in terms of hospitality and just being helped.
And that... So that was budgeted including the delivery. So you had to pay for the anesthesia,
the gynaecologist. Everything included 7,000-6,000 euros, but then because you pay taxes,
which is a very obvious system, you pay social contributions and you pay some tax. So in France,
the social contributions are a bit higher than the taxes. But because you pay taxes and because
you are part of the system, you already qualify and benefit from the basic insurance
from the government. It's a little bit complicated, but they have a base percentage that they reimburse
for certain... And they set the amounts. I will save you the details, I would exactly worse if
someone wants to just send me a message and I'll happily explain it. So apparently from that 6,000,
the majority of that money was already being reimbursed by the government, because you qualify
for it. And then you can take out an additional insurance to cover the rest. And so out of pocket,
we paid about 100 to 150 euros for delivering in a private clinic, everything included, including
again, dinner, but also anesthesia, all the things, everything. And on top of that, the government
also gives you money because you give birth. So they give you a sort of contribution because you
cannot work. So they pay you. It's not that you can really live from it, but in total way, it is
quite a good amount of money. So yeah, very good. But this is only delivery, but in general, the
healthcare is excellent. You have to do some looking around to see what is reimbursed and
whatnot. So that really change what you pay. But generally speaking, it's really good.
It's really good. Nice. And now probably the contrary bureaucracy paperwork, dealing with
residents, Burmese. That one is more tricky, but I have to say, because I like to lean into the
cliches and stereotypes because it is true, but they are also very forgiving. So if you take a
look at the government, for example, the tax office, the other side, I mean, there is not
much of an urgency to say. So very often, you receive something and then you realize that
they've made a mistake. So that happens a lot more often than you think. So don't be afraid to push
back and ask them to provide evidence or ask them to tell you why you should be paying that and
that it works like that. Because often it's just a human error. But then for example, the tax office,
they, you know, if you have to file your income tax declaration, instead of trying to figuring it
all out by yourself, just send them a message. I have no idea. This was my income. This is how it
works. Can you help me fill it out? And within a day or two, they help you. Yeah, just do everything
for you. So in that sense, it's really good. Some things can take an incredible amount of time,
such as renewing or applying for a driver's license. So if you have to renew it and you have to change
it, in our case, that was from a Dutch driver's license to a French one, which is an option. You
don't have to do that, but we decided to do that. Then you are probably waiting for, I mean, that
can take up to more than 12 months before it's actually being replaced. And there is not much
going on in between. It's just, you know, processing time. And then suddenly you just receive it.
I'm complaining about this right now, because of my driving license experience, the one, the Spanish
one, and I needed to do the change here in Italy, and it's taken six months to give me, which means
I cannot drive because I don't have an active license. I was complaining, but knowing that it
was 12 in France, I'm not complaining anymore. Six months is still a very long time to wait.
Yeah, it is. Especially if you don't know when it is going to come and if it's going to come.
It's a plastic one, isn't it? It shouldn't take that much time though. I don't know. Okay. I
have two more. The next one, it's the best and the worst, like the best thing of living there
and the worst thing of living there. I think we sort of already touched on it, but the best thing
is the quality of life. So it's just being, I mean, having sunshine does a lot. And that as well is a
cliche, but it does change really a lot. It changes your mood. It changes how you feel. It changes how
you perceive everything. You start drinking a lot of my alcohol as well, which is a choice, but
those are the best things. I mean, the people are happier because the weather is good. You spend more
time outside. You spend time doing things. You're not stuck watching Netflix all the time and just
having that sort of daily commuters in work and then going home, just eating your dinner, television
and the bets. You get more excited about doing things. So the quality of life is incredibly
important. And that at the same time is also the most difficult thing, because that makes
the professional side a lot more difficult. So that makes your career side more difficult.
The more the sun shines, so the closer you get to countries and places where it is warmer and hotter,
the more difficult it is to get things done. So people take their time. They are less punctual as
we would know from the Netherlands, from the UK, US, Germany, and so on, Scandinavians. So yeah,
that is the most difficult thing. But it does not even compare to all the benefits that you get.
It's just a price that you have to pay and that is fine. So the balance is still in the positive side.
Good. Last one that I have. Top tip, the one line advice that you would give to someone who is
planning to move there. Yeah, I mean, I have a few tips. Top tip, try to integrate. So even if you
don't speak the language or if you're not willing to put yourself out there to learn the language
yet, do something to meet people. Because otherwise, what is the point? If it's just you
and maybe your partner, you're going back to COVID times, you will get isolated very quickly. You
know, we need social interactions. We are social human beings. You need to go to places, do things
and push yourself to go out your comfort zone. I mean, because if you're looking at this podcast,
you've probably already made the step to live abroad or you're thinking about seriously doing
that. Do it. If you're not doing it yet, do it. It changes everything in your life. It changes how you
perceive the world, your horizon. You start thinking impossibility and the world just starts becoming
a much smaller place and a world of opportunities. So do it, try things, put yourself out there and
you only live once. Perfect. Thanks a lot for other responses. I would check in the time. I will do a
couple or three of the mini game that I prepared. I call it like foreigner social red or green flag.
Basically, I would give you a behaviour mindset sentence that you could hear in a next and
foreigners meet up situation and you can tell me if it's a red flag or it's a green flag for you.
First one is the sentence. I'm only here for one year. Yeah. Red flag. I always wait to be invited.
Red flag too. So the red flag interview. Yeah, it looks like it. I mix locals with internationals.
Oh, that's a good one. That's a green. Nice. I'm here only because of work. I think you touched
about that. Yeah. It's tricky because it's not necessarily red or green. I mean, also with the
one being there for a year, I mean, even if you want to spend three months somewhere or a year,
it's not necessarily bad. It's good. It's good that you get the experience and all that. But
I would, if you will be speaking with someone who is there for the long-term, it will be more
difficult to build a long-term relationship because they know that you are going to become in a few
months or a year anyways. So just some elaboration on that. It's an orange flag. My social life.
It's the same expert meet up every week. That's a red flag. Clear one. Last one that I have,
it's only go to this kind of events if I know someone inside of it. Yeah, that's bad. Just,
yeah, you will meet people through people. So it is related to the previous question as well.
You can go to the exact same event every week, which is fine, as long as the people that are
coming there are every now and then mixing, mingling, switching, and just stirring up again
as well. So it's important that you build relationships. So you need to keep seeing each
other. But yeah, it's also important that you meet people. As for if you don't have connections and
friends, it's more important that you have enough things. Connect with someone. You need to find a
connection. So you need to widen your paths a little bit. Cool. Josh, before we close the episode
a little bit, I give you a little bit of the floor, if you want to talk a little bit more
about Next Locals, which we already introduced a bit, or if you have any other project you were
talking about or business-related one, what is on your plate right now and how listeners can get
involved or in touch with you? Yeah, well again, it's not using this podcast to provide anything
we do necessarily. But if you are living abroad, we've experienced that ourselves. When we touched
on it, it can become very isolating. So that is why we created a community for people living abroad.
So that you have that starting point, because through people, you will meet people. So if you
ever want those social gatherings, we have now expanded out of the region as well. So we are
setting up in different cities. And the most important thing for our concept of work is that
we have someone locally who understands the city and is bringing people actively together. So if
you are interested in becoming a host and opening the city with us, just send us an email. You can
find all the information on nextlocals.com. We've also a mobile app, we've developed that. So I'm
very excited about that. It's still in the early stages, but it is working, it's functional. So
download the app. And if you are on the French Riviera, I run a private business network for
service businesses that want to build something bigger than themselves. So if you are a freelancer
looking to hire a talent, for example, and just build something bigger than what we call here,
the micro entreprise, which is the very small freelancer regime, then you need a place to talk
about your business, the things that you're going through. And you need guidance from people who've
done it before. That is exactly the type of thing that I offer and I hope this is a good idea. So
I'll share the links. Absolutely. The links will be in the description of the episode. So if you want,
you can check them out there. Josh, thanks a lot for explaining your journey, your experience,
and also what you built and what you are doing right now. I think it's very valuable for the
listeners to understand that they are not alone in that isolation first moment, that all we
have passed and that there is communities behind trying to build something more and
possibilities to meet people. It has been a pleasure. Thank you so much. It has been a
pleasure as well. Thank you so much, Mark, for inviting me over and I can't wait to see the episode.
See myself. For the listeners, as always, if you enjoyed, don't forget to subscribe and like,
leave some reviews, give some love to 2next Locals and the projects of Josh also. Until
the next time, keep exploring, stay curious and see you in the next episode.